161 Unvaccinated Santa Barbara Sheriff’s Deputies Refuse Testing

November 11, 2021, 7:36 am 27.5k Views 141 Comments

This story was originally published by the Santa Barbara Independent and is reproduced here in partnership with Edhat.

By Tyler Hayden of The Independent

Compliance with COVID-19 vaccine-or-test mandates at public-facing Santa Barbara institutions varies widely, with high rates reported by many organizations and much lower figures found at others.

The Sheriff’s Office is particularly out of sync with the county ordinance that went into effect three weeks ago, on October 18. Of the department’s 161 patrol deputies who have opted to receive weekly tests in lieu of being vaccinated, only 36 of them have registered to be tested, and none have actually been swabbed. That’s according to the most recent data available from the county’s Human Resources Department. “We have some work to do there,” acknowledged director Maria Elena De Guevara. 

De Guevara said her office remains in discussions with Sheriff’s employees who’ve “expressed concerns” about the registration and testing process, but she couldn’t elaborate beyond that, citing confidentiality laws. “We want them to come along,” she said. “We’re trying to answer all of their questions, but they also have to start complying with the policy.” While vaccine hesitancy has been reported among law enforcement agencies across the country, testing refusals have not been as widely documented.

Sheriff’s Office spokesperson Raquel Zick said she couldn’t comment on the matter and referred all questions to the Deputy Sheriff’s Association (DSA), the employee union leading the negotiations. Multiple attempts to reach the DSA were not successful.

Of the department’s 295 patrol deputies, 181 ― or 61 percent ― have been fully vaccinated, Zick said. Among custody deputies working at the jail, where yet another COVID-19 outbreak recently took place, only 49 percent are vaccinated. It’s not clear how many among that group have or have not submitted to the required testing.

Meanwhile, 63 out of 246 county firefighters have opted for tests over vaccines, said Captain Dave Bertucelli. But unlike the Sheriff’s Office, all 63 have registered with the county’s HR department and, as of this Monday, all have been tested. Among the county’s entire 4,564-member workforce, 80 percent have been vaccine-verified, De Guevara said.

The City of Santa Barbara, slightly behind the county in its mandate timing, is requiring all staff, including its police officers and firefighters, to provide proof of vaccination or register for weekly testing by December 1. Compliance figures will be available after that date.

Over at the Santa Barbara Unified School District, 96 percent of its approximately 1,700 staff are all vaxxed up, said spokesperson Camie Barnwell. The district placed eight employees on leave ― two teachers and six administrative staff ― who didn’t get their shots, or apply for exemptions, by the November 1 deadline. “We have substitutes who are filling in for those positions, but we are still working on a longer-term solution,” Barnwell said. 

An announcement to staff on Tuesday stated that employees with religious or medical deferrals must submit to twice-weekly COVID testing, wear an N-95 mask, and practice social distancing. Seventy employees have requested religious exemptions, and seven have asked for medical exemptions, Barnwell continued. “These numbers represent a combination of staff and classroom teachers,” she explained. “We are still in the process of working through the requests on a case-by-case basis.”

Maria Zate, a representative for Cottage Health, said 96 percent of the local healthcare giant’s 4,160 employees are vaccinated, with 220 staff receiving exemptions. “Those who qualify for an exemption will be tested twice weekly and must show a negative COVID test result,” she said. “Masking is required throughout the hospitals, by all staff and visitors, regardless of vaccination status.”

Santa Barbara’s other healthcare powerhouse, Sansum Clinic, appears to have one of the highest compliance rates in the region. Spokesperson Nicole Young said, “99 percent of our healthcare providers and 98 percent of our staff members are fully vaccinated.” A large number of the unvaccinated staff “work in a non-clinical setting or work remotely from home,” Young explained, “and all of them are required to be tested weekly.”

Dignity Health, which operates the Marian Regional Medical Center in Santa Maria, notably declined to provide any data about its workforce. Spokesperson Sara San Juan said only, “Dignity Health and Marian Regional Medical Center are committed to maintaining the safest possible care environment for our patients and employees, and ensuring we are appropriately staffed to continue providing essential health care services for our communities.” The organization, San Juan said, “supports state and federal guidelines that require COVID-19 vaccination for health care workers.”

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Written by Tyler Hayden

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  4. Regardless of whether or not we think the mandate is justified, what we have here is a group of 161 Sheriff’s deputies who don’t respect authority and who think they can pick and choose which rules and regulations to follow. Is that the profile of someone you’d trust in a position involving public safety?

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  5. “Anti-vaccine mandate does not equal anti-vaxxer.”
    According to the State of California, 66.4% are fully vaccinated, 7.5% are partially vaccinated. Close to 74% total. https://covid19.ca.gov/vaccination-progress-data/
    Of the 26% unvaccinated, it would probably be because of (1) specific health reasons, (2)
    do not trust the vaccine/had Covid and believe in herd immunity. (3) religious reasons (4) would get vaccinated but do not like to be ordered to take a shot.
    Without a mandate, we would get group 4 vaccinated and get closer to 100%. By having a mandate, there will be people getting vaccinated because they are being forced to which will also get us closer to 100%.
    One question is; Will we get more people vaccinated with a mandate or without a mandate? Probably more with a mandate.
    2nd question is: Even if a mandate will get more people vaccinated, will it motivate the government to issue other mandates, both health related and non health related? Is this the classic “slippery slope” scenario?
    Sincerely,
    A vaccinated individual who feels like a lab rat.

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  8. Thanks, VOR. I might disagree with you on some of this (to be honest, I cannot make up my mind about vaccine mandates beyond knowing I disagree with it coming from on high like the federal level saying you have to do it just to be a citizen) but I appreciate good faith discussions and anyone who is willing to actually logically spell out and defend their position. And I am always open to interrogating my own and hopeful that I can land on the side of logic and rationale rather than emotions or politics. I will say I was initially more in favor of organizational (read, not governmental) mandates and I am not saying I am no longer in favor of them, but I am less enthusiastic as the virus evolves and immunity wanes at disparate rates between people, vaccines, and so on. Relying on immunity from infection is also problematic, however. There is a lot of evidence I’ve seen that for many people, all trace of antibodies is gone from their system in 11 months or sometimes even sooner. Unfortunately I agree with you this will be endemic and longterm. My ideal scenario would be 1) that the vaccines worked even better than they do and conferred longer immunity, and/or 2) we just had a cohesive civil society that was well equipped with accurate rapid tests and everyone saw it in their, their family’s, and their social circle’s best interest to test frequently and self-isolate anytime they were testing positive. I suppose what dismays me about these sheriffs deputies is that they are allegedly resisting testing. Testing does not require they be vaccinated so it seems obstinate for sake of being obstinate, or denial that COVID can pose a serious threat to even those who do not die. Not really comfortable with either of those scenarios, whereas I am a bit more flexible for resisting a mandate to inject something into your body.

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  12. In addition to the debate over vaccination, there is a lot of discussion about other steps to try to mitigate covid. For example, some states have strict rules that require wearing masks and even require proof of vaccination to enter certain public spaces. Other states have taken the opposite approach and forbid mask and vaccine requirements. I have analyzed the fatality outcomes in two states that have taken completely different approaches, New York and Florida. Florida has had 60,418 deaths according to the Johns Hopkins website and has a population of about 22,000,000 which comes to about 275 deaths per 100,000 population. New York has had 56,828 deaths according to the Johns Hopkins website and has a population of 19,300,000 which comes to 294 deaths per 100,000 population. Interestingly, both states have a similar vaccination rate, and Florida has a higher proportion of elderly people in its population.

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  14. Chip, to get stats relating to vaccination, you must consider only the deaths that have occurred since vaccines have been available to the general public. I don’t know what those stats will show, but to get meaningful stats, you have to start with meaningful parameters. There are, of course other things to consider beyond the proportion of elderly in the population. You might have a point, but this one statistic you give does not prove it.

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  15. Babycakes: At no point did I disrespect the sheriffs I encountered. I always call law enforcement “sir” or “officer” and don’t raise my voice even when their tone and way they approach me is completely disproportionate and ridiculous. I gave them respect even when they searched me for handing a dollar to my friend taking the bus, or pulled me over and did a field sobriety test for going 70mph on the freeway. Even when I could tell the deputy pulling me over was someone who let even a little power go to their head, I showed respect. Based on my 30+ years of encounters with SBSO and knowledge of their activities (or lack thereof), they don’t deserve any respect whatsoever.

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  16. The fear of Covid is so blown out of proportion that it is almost comical. In Santa Barbara, the case rate of 9 new cases per 100,000 is like a grain of sand on a beach. It hardly warrants all these oppressive mandates. The bottom line is if you’re vaccinated you really have nothing to fear from unvaccinated people. In fact, not only are you unlikely to test positive for Covid, but your chances of getting seriously ill is almost non-existent.
    I went to two NFL football games in Los Angeles since September. There were at least 60,000 people at both games. Guess what, no one there wore masks. Were these super spreader events? No, they were not. Most people in the real world have stopped paying attention to these mandates. It’s been almost two years and people are tired of all the nonsense.

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  21. They should not be allowed to be near anyone if they aren’t at least tested. They supposedly care about public safety and yet they are putting others’ lives in danger! Some of us are immunocompromised and you would never know because overall we look healthy. Police have been going around without masks in many places. That should be a federal law after all this, that all public servants, at the very least, have to be tested and wear masks if they aren’t going to be vaccinated and just stop pretending you are doing your job because you care about the safety of others if what you are actually doing is putting others at grave risk.

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  28. No way would I go near Marian or other hospitals in Dignity Health. Nor do I want to interact with deputies who are not vaccinated. Sheriff Brown should fire all of them and take away those huge pensions……..or maybe throw them into those nice new cells in Santa Maria. I am so sick of all these selfish holdouts. (pun intended).

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  29. FITZ: If you have had your jabs/booster, you have nothing to worry about. If you are concerned, then that’s your problem. Take away their pensions? Throw them in jail? Oh yeah, let’s punish ’em….how progressive (not).

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  30. Fire them all. Its a perfect time to rid the force and our society of bad / dumb cops. If they don’t understand the need to “protect and to serve” the people at large, they should be working as a graveyard shift mall cop instead. I have ZERO empathy for LE who refuse to comply with lawful orders or to perform their duty in a safe manner. The irony and lack of self awareness of these idiots is simply too much…

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  32. It is offensive to find that well-paid public employees such as the SBSO feel they can arrogantly ignore the directions of their employers and endanger the public they are supposed to protect. One knows that every member of the dissenting group has been vaccinated in the past against childhood diseases as well as a good number of military veterans who got the jab to do that work. This is childish political stuff, a bit like a 3 year old’s tantrum.

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  36. Isn’t getting vaccinated part of protecting and serving… I sure hope those 161 officers are wearing n95 mask when they pull people over. Sheriff Brown says no civilian oversight is needed. I disagree. The fact that the sheriff’s spokesperson wouldn’t comment and their union won’t comment. If Samsum can get 98% compliance and Cottage is at 95% and everyone wearing masks why isn’t the sheriff dept. Brown lack of leadership is showing again. Is he vaccinated ? He needs to come out with a statement supporting masks and vaccines . This attitude about being above it all is troubling and does not inspire confidence at all.

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  38. You guys are disgusting. These are front line workers who continued doing their job when pandemic started and all of you went and hid in your homes. Many of them were already infected with covid-19 carrying out their duties, which the real science has shown offers a more robust and longer lasting protection that any of the currently available vaccines. It is so utterly disappointing to see all these calls for them to be fired and lose their pensions coming out of our community.

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  40. Two years ago, my office was broken into and burglarized with a loss of around $7,000. The burglar injured themselves and left blood at the scene, but the SBSO deputy, when asked to sample the blood for forensic dna testing, said, “This is not television; we don’t do that.” So the perp is free to wreak havoc on other businesses and residences. I see our roads being dominated by aggressive drivers speeding and crowding out other motorists and jeopardizing everyone including pedestrians without any intervention by SBSO personnel. Officers should be examples of proper behavior to the general population, not renegades holding themselves above the “law”.

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  43. Fire them. Simple solution. Fire them and rehire. Protect and Serve? yeah Brown needs to go also. He hasn’t protected and served SB County very well. Sure there are good things done. Can’t argue this. But the bad outweighs the good. Just fire them and hire more.

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  44. ChillinGrillin:
    Rule #1 – When interacting with LE, no matter what, always treat them with respect.
    Rule #2 – When interacting with LE, no matter what, always/always treat them with respect.
    Rule #3- When interacting with LE, no matter what, always/always/allllllllways treat them with respect.
    Rules #4 – infinity….same as rule #3.
    Here’s are two scenarios that point out the difference between dealing with LE the right way, and the wrong way:
    Goofus (wrong way): “I did NOT drive through a red light and you are mistaken Mr. LE.” = Fat ticket
    Gallant (right way): “Yeah, I probably drove through the intersection a bit late Mr. LE.” = Warning (about 85-90% of the time)
    As you can see, Goofus got the ticket, and Gallant got off with a simple warning by showing respect. Simplistic explanation, but if all of your interactions with the SBSD are a “fail”….then you be doing sumpting wrong.

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  47. 10:45 : That’s a form of self-fulfilling prophecy – the behavior of the COVIDIOTS allowed the virus to spread such that we may not be able to prevent its being endemic. Even deer are now a potential reservoir, like ground squirrels for bubonic plague. Thanks a lot!

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  49. freedom to chose??? sending unvaxed/untested deputies out into the general public isn’t protecting and serving. they also have a freedom to chose another job if being a public SERVANT isn’t in their wheelhouse. my tax dollars say they need to go.

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  53. Another lie from “Voice of Reason” about the CDC. Thankfully it was deleted.
    Title: “Fact Check-Fauci, Marks did not say 40% to 50% of CDC and FDA employees are ‘refusing the COVID-19 vaccine’”
    https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-faucimarks-cdcvaccinationlevel/fact-check-fauci-marks-did-not-say-40-to-50-of-cdc-and-fda-employees-are-refusing-the-covid-19-vaccine-idUSL2N2N71QB

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  57. No Babycakes. These people have not earned our respect anymore than a DMV employee. Should we all be civil and polite? Sure. But the people with the deadly weapons should do so first and not employ outrageous ego/power trips. The bad cops, or the “bad apples” as you’ve said in the past, need to go. These are the bad apples, stop backpedalling.

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  58. Wrong, I did not say they refused, I said they weren’t vaccinated. Here is a direct quote from your fact check:
    “Regarding NIAID employees, Fauci responded: “You know I’m not 100% sure, Senator. But I think it’s probably a little bit more than half, probably around 60 percent”. Then Marks said that the number for FDA employees was “probably in the same range,” although he couldn’t “tell an exact number.”
    So FDA and NIAID are at about 60% vaxed, and if you watched the actual hearing the CDC totally dodged the question (why!?! think about that). Why are so many at the NIAID and FDA not vaccinated? They were “first in line”, experts in the field and would know exactly the risk covid poses and the benefits the vaccines provide, but still not vaccinated…

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  60. The freedom to refuse a Covid vaccine shot and/or test would be legitimate if all those that refused would stay at home in isolation. In this case, these deputies are endangering the health of everyone who they come in contact with, including friends and families. To fire 161 deputies is not in the interest of our population, considering the fact that crime is on the upswing. These deputies believe that they have “the upper hand” in this stand-off. Were I in charge, I would call for Governor Newsom to bring in CA National Guard MP’s and other NG troops and use them for patrol duties to augment the remaining deputies on the job. Surely, this is far from a perfect solution and carries a price, but standing up to bullies always carries a price.
    At the least, these renegade deputies should be suspended without pay or benefits and they should never get back what they lost! No compliance, no paycheck, no free healthcare, no pension contributions. If they or a family member gets sick while suspended, they pay their own hospital bills. Let’s see how many hold out and for how long!

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  66. Weird to see alleged alpha males so afraid of a little shot. COVID is the number one killer of law enforcement officers. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-police-officers-leading-cause-death/ I’d personally like to see our LEO healthy and thriving and cannot understand why people are so afraid of the vaccines. We’ve had them for a year and none of us is dead from them or suffering any major effects… so… what’s the big deal. Those of us gung ho about them happily served as the “guinea pigs” the hesitant claimed the needed to feel confident. Unfortunately their opinions are not shifting even as reality shows they’re not dangerous. I agree they’re not as effective as we all originally hoped, but they seem to reduce your risk of dying or needing hospitalization by 90%. People really take their health for granted.

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  67. VOR, are you afraid of the vaccines? Or you simply reject them because you believe they are ultimately futile at “ending the pandemic”? If the latter, how do you deal with the data that shows vaccination reduces hospitalization and death. Do you advocate for them for ANY population?

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  68. John Oliver said this on his show Last Week Tonight:
    “If an officer wants to quit over this, fucking let them. Let the individuals who clearly don’t care about public safety stop being in charge of public safety. It really is that simple”

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  77. The Newsweek article is full of opinion, inaccuracies, distortion and downright lies. For example,the bit about how school children don’t contract Covid is untrue, but the real issue with kids is that they are super spreaders of viruses and other diseases if unvaccinated. They are playing together in close proximity, often don’t wash hands or practice “safe” distance, and can’t be expected to have the awareness of disease and contamination that adults do. These are facts, not opinions.

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  78. The role of Sheriff is to protect and serve the people, not be a popularity cheerleader for the staff, including officers. Vaccination is protection, safe and necessary, particularly for civil servants who may unexpectedly (and often in crisis situations) enter our lives. We shouldn’t have to wonder what disease they are bringing into our homes and community.

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  80. @11:51 but let’s elaborate, first kids are not covid superspreaders, that simply hasn’t happened at all during this pandemics. Second, an unvaccinated child has about the same resilience to covid as a vaccinated 30 year old and is significantly more resilient than a vaccinated 65+ year old. So why then would unvaccinated kids be forced into masks when old but vaccinated people, like at Obama’s party, the recent Getty wedding, pro marks mandate mayors and politicians being seen at many clubs, bars and events, un masked , with lots of people (vaccinated) , is okay?

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  81. As expected, when this article appeared, the FREEDUMB butt snorkelers came out in force.
    If you don’t want to follow the rules to protect the populace, and instead choose selfishly to endanger them, you can’t be a public servant. It’s that simple.

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  82. These “opinions” are from people associated with a Libertarian advocacy group founded by a character who seems to fancy himself an “anaracho-capitalist” and hangs with these economic Darwinists who want to rate social value by how well you compete (no rules of course) in the quest to gain wealth and therefore power over society. Their most recent op ed defends Aaron Rogers lies about his COVID protection status and opines that the problem is that Rogers is just too dumb to present the case for alternate treatments effectively. They are just opinions, not scientifically proven options. They definitely were not agreed to by their peers. The petty attack on Fauci is proof of a sort that this essay is not meant to be a serious exercise in analysis.

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  83. It is very multifaceted SBTownie. It’s tough to answer that in the space we have allotted. When I have more time I’ll try and condense my thoughts for an appropriate reply. Bottom line, no, you should not be forced to inject something in your body in order to participate in society. In the future could there be something so incredibly dangerous and terrifying to warrant that, possibly, I hope not, but that certianly isn’t covid, and even then if it were that horrifyingly deadly you wouldn’t have anyone refusing the vax, (and if they did, they wouldn’t last long).

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  84. That’s what’s terrifying. These people are in control of others, yet don’t see the need to protect themselves — and us. I’m disgusted with them.
    We have a relatively decent sheriff.
    But we must be aware of the toxicity of “sheriffs” and their “independence” movement, which seeks to remove them and their followers from federal and state law. It’s “legally” sponsored lawlessness.

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  85. “you should not be forced to inject something in your body in order to participate in society.”
    What if your “participation in society” includes control over others in physically close quarters? Does the analysis of risk to you and them change? Yes, of course I think it should.

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  86. This is SO disappointing ! That this many (intelligent?) people hired “to protect and serve” don’t have the compassion to get vaccinated to prevent those that they come into contact with from possible getting this deadly virus. How many doctors and scientists have to explain (repeatedly!) that we can ALL be carriers of the virus and not be aware of it ? ….. until it is too late…. and you have infected innocent people … and allow the virus to keep spreading and mutating. How many people have to die ?

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  87. Ahlia, you are assuming that getting one of the covid vaccines will prevent transmission of the virus. This is unfortunately not the case. It is important that people are aware they can still get covid and transmit it to others after being vaccinated. Other vaccines like the polio vaccine provide immunity. Those who are vaccinated for polio cannot get polio and cannot transmit polio to others. Covid vaccines provide protection against covid, but not immunity. This means that if you get the covid vaccine you are less likely to have a severe case. Unfortunately, the covid vaccines will not stop you from getting covid or from transmitting covid to others. To bring it full circle, vaccination will not prevent the people these deputies come into contact with from possibly getting this deadly virus. Here is a link to the la times article explaining the covid vaccines cannot stop virus transmission. https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-shifts-pandemic-goals-away-from-reaching-herd-immunity/ar-AAQCZMW

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  90. Wait, so not only are they refusing to get vaccinated, they are now refusing to even get tested???? Shameful. So now what? Are they still allowed to detain people? Shouldn’t be. I’ll be damned if I’ll get in a cop car with a couple at-risk, non vaccinated cops. Fire them all.

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  91. From the top dog himself:
    “They are seeing a waning of immunity not only against infection but against hospitalization and to some extent death, which is starting to now involve all age groups. It isn’t just the elderly,” Fauci said. “It’s waning to the point that you’re seeing more and more people getting breakthrough infections, and more and more of those people who are getting breakthrough infections are winding up in the hospital.”
    https://bestlifeonline.com/fauci-vaccinated-people-boosters-news/
    So we are going to mandate vaccines and boosters for everyone every three months indefinitely? The vaccine protects you, get it, get boosted, stop worrying about others.

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  97. Sac, if you get in a car with someone has covid, you can still get covid whether they have been vaccinated or not. You can still get it whether you have been vaccinated or not. The latest studies are finding the vaccine does little to reduce the likelihood of covid transmission. If you are vaccinated, however, you will be less likely to have a severe case. The whole premise of forcing people to get vaccinated was that it would help protect others, and the latest studies are indicating that premise is not valid.

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  98. I guess I’ll raise my hand here as one of the few people on Edhat that is actually pro-choice…
    That being said, we should be testing people these days…so yeah these cops need to be getting tested. Get rid of the silly masks in schools and test the kids…that’s the actual valuable thing!

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  100. CHIP – “vaccination will not prevent the people these deputies come into contact with from possibly getting this deadly virus.” Again, again, again, again….. it will LOWER the risk. Why do nothing to lower the risk of transmission/infection? You guys are spending so much time telling us what we already know – the vax isn’t 100%. No sh&*, we’ve known that for months.
    Why should the police do NOTHING to prevent the spread of the virus? I’m interested to hear why they should do NOTHING to help.

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  101. And that brings up the next issue we’ll be facing shortly, the “lawfulness” of a universal vaccine mandate is far from certain and already working through the various courts. Do you know how many current politicians pushing a vaccine mandate said the except opposite ahead of elections? With many having went as far as saying the constitution wouldn’t support it, but now they’re elected, mandate, threaten, mandate!

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  102. “No — I don’t think it should be mandatory. I wouldn’t demand it to be mandatory,” – Joe Biden
    “So—so here is the thing. We are—we cannot require someone to be vaccinated. That’s just not what we can do. It is a matter of privacy to know who is or who isn’t.” – Nancy Pelosi
    LIARS!

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  110. A reasonable person looks out for the common good, not their own self-interest, and base their decisions on rational thinking. If they can decide to not get vaccinated, they should suffer the consequences, not the poor overworked medical personnel.

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  112. Just fire them all! If they can’t obey legal orders and they don’t care about other peoples safety they should not be police officers.
    If I ended up in jail and caught Covid from one of these unvaccinated “correction” officers, you can bet I would sue the keepers of the jail!

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  113. Here is an article from the LA times. Doctors at the cdc are now explaining that “herd immunity” will not be possible because the covid vaccines cannot stop virus transmission. So many of the comments here are based on the assumption that a sufficient vaccination rate will eradicate the virus and that vaccination stops virus transmission. It looks like those assumptions have now been proven incorrect. https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-11-12/cdc-shifts-pandemic-goals-away-from-reaching-herd-immunity

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  116. There are so many science deniers here Chip, it’s a little surprising as so many here have been preaching how the “science” changes as we learn more but are now entrenched in their position as the science continues to change. While it has been evident for some time, I posted an article yesterday from CNN reflecting the same thing as your LA Times article. Hopefully, as more of this starts coming out from “acceptable” new sources backed by “acceptable” experts people will start coming around. (advanced degrees and professorships at the likes of Harvard and Stanford don’t make you an “acceptable” expert anymore as evident by the response to the other article I posted yesterday).

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  117. Even Mr. Vaccinate The World himself has acknowledged while they’re great at keeping you safe and out of the hospital, they only minimally reduce transmission. So get yourself vaccinated and stop worrying about others. This is good. And there are more vaccines under development / testing that show promise at reducing transmission against the delta variant as well.
    “We got vaccines that help you with your health, but they only slightly reduce transmission.” – Bill Gates, about a week ago.
    https://trialsitenews.com/bill-gates-acknowledges-covid-19-vaccines-not-stopping-viral-transmission-fundamental-premises-questione

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  118. Authoritarians have a hard time following orders if they think THEY are top dog in all situations. This is the attitude that makes them lose cannons on the street sometimes. Their default mode is esculate-and-I’ll-show-you-who’s-boss. In this instance, they need to be shown who’s top dog: Put them on unpaid leave with no credit toward retirement or any other benefit until they see the light or move to Texas or one of the other states who population doesn’t get it that freedom requires responsibility.

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  124. There are enough science deniers here to downvote SBGetsAlong’s post about the new reputable studies that show the currant batch of vaccines don’t reduce transmission in the home. Those pushing for vaccine mandates are now the science deniers:
    https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/231557/covid-vaccines-effective-household-transmission-delta/
    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59077036
    https://www.thelancet.com/coronavirus/collection?SeriesKey=lancet&startPage=0&pageSize=100
    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-variant-vaccines-protect-from-severe-disease-but-do-not-stop-all-transmission

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  125. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
    Unfortunately, the vaccine’s beneficial effect on Delta transmission waned to almost negligible levels over time. In people infected 2 weeks after receiving the vaccine developed by the University of Oxford and AstraZeneca, both in the UK, the chance that an unvaccinated close contact would test positive was 57%, but 3 months later, that chance rose to 67%. The latter figure is on par with the likelihood that an unvaccinated person will spread the virus.

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  127. It is very frustrating indeed Voice. People are here calling for mass firings and worse in order to force people to get vaccinated. The problem is, this push to vaccinate is based in large part on the belief that vaccines stop virus transmission and that achieving a sufficient vaccination rate will result in herd immunity and the eradication of covid. If achieving 100% vaccination would eradicate covid the way the small pox vaccine eradicated small pox, a strong argument could be made in support of forced vaccinations. However, this premise is false. The covid vaccines can provide a significant benefit in reducing the severity of infection, but they cannot stop transmission or provide herd immunity. For months and months, people have been told they must get vaccinated, or else, and that once they do covid will go away and everything will go back to normal. Now, people are starting to figure out that is simply not true. We could all get the existing covid vaccines, and covid still wouldn’t go away and we still couldn’t go back to normal. This will result in a further erosion of the public trust. New and more effective vaccines will likely be developed in the future that could live up to the promises of herd immunity and a return to normal. Unfortunately, the public will now be much lest trusting of vaccines and less willing to adopt them.

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  128. Within the first 3 months post vaccine your transmission ability is reduced by 15% over that of an unvaccinated individual (67%-57%)/67%. After 3 months, it’s on par with an unvaccinated individual. To use transmission reduction as a reason for vaccine mandates we’d need boosters every three months or less. These are real stats, real scientist conducting these studies and instead of reading them posters here make comments like: “Amazingly stupid bunch of people” “idiots” and “morons” or some hack comment about political affiliation and talk show hosts.

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  129. We’re going on two years into this thing. If someone doesn’t want to get vaccinated (for whatever reason) I respect that. Everyone knows the risks. There’s lots of reports circulating about how “vaccinated” people are now getting Covid. If you believe in the efficacy of your vaccination then you shouldn’t live in fear of the vaccinated.
    I’m vaccinated, but I won’t be getting a booster. My opinion now is that natural immunity is best. I am hoping that if I get the virus that my “vaccination “ will help me avert severe Covid.

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  133. “Ger8t, herd immunity is not something one can “believe in” or not. Herd immunity is a form of indirect protection from infectious disease that can occur with some diseases when a sufficient percentage of a population has become immune to an infection, whether through previous infections or vaccination, thereby reducing the likelihood of infection for individuals who lack immunity.”
    See post from CHIP OF SB NOV 12, 2021 07:54 AM: Here is an article from the LA times. Doctors at the cdc are now explaining that “herd immunity” will not be possible because the covid vaccines cannot stop virus transmission. So many of the comments here are based on the assumption that a sufficient vaccination rate will eradicate the virus and that vaccination stops virus transmission. It looks like those assumptions have now been proven incorrect. https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2021-11-12/cdc-shifts-pandemic-goals-away-from-reaching-herd-immunity

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  137. Nice to read that you and VOR are pro-choice.
    Its really great to know that so many people feel so strongly about one’s dominion over their body. Of course, if you feel this strongly about your body, this must hold true for others. Right? Because women also have dominion over their body, and therefore are allowed an unchallenged choice in the care of their bodies…

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  138. The same cycle repeats over and over when new developments or information come out pertaining to covid. The wuhan lab leak theory provides a good example. When it was first reported that a coronavirus laboratory near the wuhan wet market had been doing research involving modifying bat corona viruses in a way that made them more infectious to humans, it was considered blasphemous to even suggest covid could have originated in the lab. The folks who first reported on the lab were banned from Twitter. The sentiment against the lab leak theory was so pervasive, it was awkward to even bring it up socially. Anyone who suggested covid might have originated in the coronavirus lab risked being “cancelled” or otherwise shouted down. As time went on, more and more information trickled out and the lab leak theory became more and more compelling. Twitter eventually reinstated the account that first reported the lab leak theory, and news outlets revised and updated their earlier articles to reflect that the lab leak theory was a strong possibility. The same cycle is playing out now regarding the efficacy of the covid vaccines. It is still blasphemous to suggest thee vaccines are not effective at preventing transmission, or that vaccine efficacy declines significantly in a matter of months. However, as time passes and “the science evolves” these new developments will be better understood and accepted.

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  140. Casting shade by putting vaccine references in quotes – subtle.
    And, you don’t even seem to mind that your potential mild case of COVID could cause you to infect others – that’s where the Low Conscientiousness comes in.

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