Edhat Reader
There’s a rally happening now (Saturday, Dec. 2) at the Santa Barbara Courthouse calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.
Looks to be about a hundred people or more gathering for a rally then a march through Santa Barbara, sponsored by the Central Coast Antiwar Coalition.
“The Coalition calls on the Santa Barbara County Board of Supervisors and City Council to pass resolutions in support of a ceasefire,” according to a statement from the Antiwar Coalition.
Sophia Halima Fadila is a Palestinian resident of Santa Barbara who was born near Jerusalem. Fadila said, “We reject the resolution that county supervisors passed on November 11, 2023, to declare support for Israel. The supervisors passed this resolution, reportedly without any Muslims on hand, during Israel’s relentless bombings of Gaza’s hospitals, health clinics, apartments, and escape routes. These bombs, some of them weighing 2,000 pounds, turned Gaza into a graveyard for children.”
Omar Figueredo, organizer with the Central Coast Antiwar Coalition, added, “The county supervisors do not speak for us. We do not stand with Israel in its genocidal campaign against Gaza. We stand with those who yearn for liberation from occupation and who support peace and justice in the Middle East and at home.”
Speakers include an indigenous person reading a land acknowledgement, Halima Fadila, former San Luis Obispo Mayor Heidi Harmon, congressional candidate Helena Pasquerella, and Marcy Winograd of CODEPINK-Santa Barbara.
Over 15,000 dead, mostly children in Gaza. It’s time to stop the slaughter.
And by the way. “Slaughter”. Nope. People love to throw around and devalue words like “Genocide”. If this were an attempt at Genocide by the Israeli government then it is literally the weakest, worst, most failed attempt at genocide in history. If it were that, then there would be 10x or 20x civilian deaths.
You’re falling for it.
“Again why do you include Hamas terrorists in your accounting of casualties in this conflict and not Israeli civilians or military?” – WOW. Tell me you never read my comments without telling me you’ve never read my comments. The thousands of dead innocent Palestinians is the topic here. I’m talking about the one side you keep ignoring – the Palestinians.
“You only seem to be terribly upset when an Israeli kills a Gazan. ” – That’s horseshit and you know it.
” Where’s your call for Hamas to cease firing these missiles? Where is your demand for Hamas to cease hostilities and give up their weapons so a functional non-terrorist government can serve the people in Gaza? ” – It’s there EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I condemn Hamas and say they must be destroyed and removed from power.
“Your bias is showing.” – I support the underdogs. Right now, the innocent Palestinians of Gaza (and West Bank) are the underdogs. Anyone who speaks out for them is attacked, as you’ve been doing. Yeah, I’m biased as hell. Hamas and the Israeli government are criminals, the TENS OF THOUSANDS of dead and mutilated innocent Palestinians are not. I speak for them. This is about them.
Your disingenuousness is glaring.
ALEX – what do you call over 6 thousand dead kids and thousands more disfigured for life? Just answer the question.
SACJON – we call that a statistic.
“Also, let’s go right ahead and dig into one thing that you keep stating. “15k” killed” – I said it ONCE. One time. You’re exaggerating and making things up again. Further, I qualified it and made my point clear by saying “mostly children,” as that (and the innocent men and women) are who I’m talking about, not EVERY one of the over 15,000 killed. Well, maybe that’s off, it’s almost half, not “mostly.”
Either way, I’ll never support the continued attacks on civilians, even for the purpose of eradicating Hamas. This isn’t the way.
You know it’s quite something–the closer attention I pay to exactly what you say, the more I see you twisting words.
I’ve already pointed out where you do that with the words “genocide” and “slaughter”.
I’m going to add “Indiscriminate”. You say that Israel is “indiscriminately bombing children.”
Do you know what the word “indiscriminate” means? It means without drawing any distinction. It means, done at random or without careful judgment.
False. If it were indiscriminate as you say there there would be no leaflets, no phone calls to areas where targets have been identified, no telling the civilian population to leave an area, no effort made.
All of these things have been done.
So, again, no, you keep using these words dishonestly.
Also, let’s go right ahead and dig into one thing that you keep stating. “15k” killed.
You already ignored my pointing this out, so now I’ll ask you a direct question–why do you include Hamas terrorist fighters who rape, torture, murder and kidnap in that number without including ALL CASUALTIES which have occurred in this conflict?
Answer that question.
LOL, “just answer the question”. Firs time you’ve asked it.
I call it an avoidable tragedy. Genocide is a real word. Slaughter is a real war. You show me videos of IDF rounding up civilians, putting them against a wall and gunning them down and I will give you “slaughter”. You show me that happening as a matter of Israeli governmental policy and you get to use the word “Genocide.”
Stop using words falsely. Doing so is literally you playing along with the Hamas marketing and PR handbook. Use your critical thinking skills.
1. You should note that the casualty numbers include Hamas military. Lumping them together is wrong. Palestinian civilians and Hamas terrorists are not the same, Hamas reports it as one number for propaganda purposes, you’re falling for it.
2. Cease fire. Sure. And then what. You think Hamas will change their path? Give up power? Never going to happen. They want a pan-Middle Eastern Jihadist government. They want the total destruction of Israel. They do the bidding of their Iranian masters who want the same thing. So, yeah, cease fire. Let them rebuild. And in five years here we are again and more innocent people will die.
3. This must end with the destruction and replacement of Hamas with a functional government that can create a non-violent future for the people of Gaza.
AlexBlue:
1.The reports of deaths have not just come from Hamas, but from Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders, U.N. Aid agencies, and other internationally respected groups. The dead clearly include thousands of infants and elderly, a vast majority of women and children. They also include hundreds of reporters, medical personnel and aid workers. The statistics do not begin to address the possibly permanent health hazards suffered by the innocent due to deprivation of food and water by Israel’s blockade of shipments of basic needs. Your desire to separate out Hamas personnel indicates a desperate attempt to defend the indefensible.
2. And then what? a) An end to the Israel’s blockade of Gaza and military occupation of the West Bank; b) Installation of an international U.N.- sponsored peacekeeping force in Gaza completely independent of Israel;
A “Marshall-Plan” scale of re-building in Gaza.
3, This must end with a cessation of the Israeli Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. No other solution will bring peace to anyone.
“NEVER AGAIN” should apply to all human beings.
“You also, like SacJon decide to leave the number of Israeli casualties out of that total. If you want to ignore some casualties and highlight others, then your position is morally indefensible.” – ALEX that’s just false. You keep hammering people for the things they don’t say. How can you take what isn’t said and then create an argument against it? Motte and Bailey. That’s how.
No, to point to the number of innocent Palestinian deaths, while arguing that the bombing of Palestinians in Gaza must stop, is absolutely, 100% morally defensible without including the number of innocent Israeli deaths in the 10/7 attack. Those are two different events. It’s like saying you can’t complain about civilian deaths in Hiroshima without pointing out how many civilians were killed in Pearl Harbor.
Civilians in Israel aren’t being bombed daily. Civilians in Gaza are. You need to get past this insistence on acknowledging 10/7 every time someone wants the bombing of Gaza to stop.
Again, the 10/7 attack was terrible. Civilians were raped and butchered. It’s awful and Hamas needs to go, now. They need to release the hostages, now. Not sure how many more times I have to say that for my calls to end the bombing in Gaza to be “acceptable.”
You are dodging the issue again.
You just can’t deal with the fact that I’m right about the moral failing in creating parity between Gaza civilian and Hamas Terrorist casualties.
I’ll say it again for the slow people. Hamas reports these numbers to get to the maximum for PR. Including terrorist casualties with civilian casualties is morally wrong and in fact places a murdering, raping, kidnapping, terrorist fighter in the same category as a three year old Palestinian child.
Doing this is horrifying and wrong. They are not the same. Claiming or implying that these are equal literally creates an argument for Israeli extremists to justify ACTUAL genocide, i.e., somehow they are not bound to distinguish between an innocent child and a terrorist, they are somehow the same, therefore license is created to murder civilians “preemptively”.
How you don’t understand this is actually shocking.
“SBdiy, don’t even try me on this. You’ll fail.” – lol the arrogance is unbearable here
Exercise some self restraint then. Ignore me.
SBdiy, don’t even try me on this. You’ll fail.
First, I haven’t disputed the overall reported humber. Miss me with that nonsense.
You also entirely miss the importance of distinguishing between military and non-military casualties. If you lump them all together then you are creating a connection between Hamas terrorists and civilians. I’m sure you don’t want to make a case that they are the same because then everyone becomes a legitimate target. Best not to go down that path. So you can also stuff your mistaken assumption about my motivation for pointing out that these casualties are not equal. To “defend the indefensible”? Not by a long shot. Mixing all casualties in to one number is a cynical PR ploy– you have to give Hamas and their proxies credit, they have done an excellent job on the PR side of things.
You also, like SacJon decide to leave the number of Israeli casualties out of that total. If you are a real humanitarian then you need to include all casualties in the conflict in the number. If you want to ignore some casualties and highlight others, then your position is morally indefensible. Unless of course you think that any human being on one side of a fence is an innocent and any human being on the other side “deserves it.” In which case, well, you know what that makes you.
Lastly, yeah, I have already advocated for literally everything you have written in regards to what’s next. I want peace for everyone. Period. Hamas needs to go, responsible government needs to replace them. Abbas has already shown he won’t take a two state deal. So who? UN Peacekeeping plus a council of Middle Eastern nations, sure, great, do that. Flood the zone with aid and make it a wonderful place for Gazans to live freely, hell yeah. Like what could have happened back before 2006 and Hamas taking power. Gaza could be amazing at this moment if those billions stolen by Hamas had been put into building it up for peace and not for war.
Here’s what you miss because you, like many others, are so blinded by your obvious bias. Cease fires and peace can only be possible when both sides want it. Hamas categorically does not. Without violence they can not be funded by their masters. And by the way, don’t think for a second that I don’t know that powerful stakeholders in the Israeli government and obviously Netanyahu also don’t want peace. I know they don’t. But, they are constrained by rules which Hamas is not, so despite any desire they may to commit Genocide, you know, actual genocide, not what is going on right now, they are unable to carry out their desires. Which of course, is a good thing. If Hamas were to surrender with conditions Israel would have no choice but to facilitate a two state solution. Hamas will not. So war.
And how about if you take “Never Again” and put it away. You tying the holocaust to current events is also part of the Hamas PR playbook–nice work carrying that water.
Lastly, the fact that you don’t even address the settler issue tells me you’re extremely minimally informed on what’s happening there.
Go do a lot of reading. A lot.
AlexBLue: I have not noted the number of Hamas casualties because the only source providing that data is the Israeli government, and their number appears to be calculated by simply classifying any male above the age of 14 as “Hamas”. I also did not report exact figures because, on the Gaza side, they grow exponentially, and figures I quote are obsolete within hours.
I have NO idea what you mean about “the fact” that I have “not addressed the settler issue”, but re:”minimally informed”: I have read extensively, lectured to public audiences and been interviewed in media on the subject of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I have traveled through the Occupied West Bank, had trash thrown at me in Hebron, and discussed the issue at length with many in both the Jewish and and Arab sectors. This is the last post in which I will address my personal qualifications. If you cannot keep the argument to facts, your posts are not worth a response. I also stand by “Never Again means for everyone”
Phenomenal, you are far better informed than your initial post would indicate.
And yet, you are carrying water for Hamas by following their playbook on creating parity between terrorist fighters and innocent children. You further claim that I would separate out these groups because I’m trying to “defend the indefensible.” That is literally laughable.
1. One can easily and rationally make a case, i.e., “defend” Israel’s current approach to this conflict. Unless of course, if you are that thing that is so rare as to be almost mythical; a true pacifist. I doubt you are. Therefore, I refer you to the scope of human conflict and war. On that continuum, Israel’s actions are in fact restrained.
2. I’ll say it again as simply as possible. If you put innocent children in the same category as rapists, murderers, torturers and kidnappers, then you are opening the door for an argument for true genocide. These groups are not the same. Don’t debase the deaths of innocent children by implying that they are.
SBDIY – So much truth. Get ready to be labeled an anti-Semite or Pro-Hamas though. Some here aren’t capable of separating support for innocent people being bombed with support for Hamas or hate for Israelis.
Oh buddy, I 100% grieve for and support the approximately 10k innocent people who have lost their lives in Gaza.
As far as the terrorist who called his mother on a dead woman’s phone to brag to her “Mother, I am calling you from a dead Jewish woman’s phone. I killed more than ten Jews today.”
No way. Send that guy to hell and every one who flights for Hamas right behind him.
“by the way, exactly who don’t you include ALL CASUALTIES when you throw out that 15k number?” – For the very reason you stated – some are Hamas. Why do you insist on ignoring the deaths of over 6000 of children? Why?
Once again, what do you call over 6 thousand dead kids and thousands more disfigured for life? You don’t like the words I and others use, so do tell….. what do you call it? You can dodge and nitpick my choice of words all you want, but you really should consider the end result of all this: more children will die in this war you support. I can’t accept that.
I think we’re done here. Really nothing more to say to you. I am at a loss how vehemently you attack every single one of my comments in support of ending the bombing. You do you, man.
Terrorists are causing it by endangering their civilians!
They want huge civilian casualties so the world will hate Israel. Don’t be manipulated.
Ask Hamas to return all hostages
This mob moved into downtown residential areas where they got to intimidate local Jews with their pro terrorist message.
ERIC – how is showing support for the thousands of innocent deaths in Gaza, over SIX THOUSAND being CHILDREN, “pro -terrorist?” Why do you support the continued bombing of children? And no, it’s not “just what happens in war.”
I believe giving aid and comfort to the enemy is treason.
RUBAIYAT – the women and children of Gaza are not “the enemy.”
Moron alert….
Dude..sorry I called ya a moron. I don’t want to be that person that gets here and is mean
My mean comment was for sacjon by the way.
SZQ – Thanks for outing yourself. Way to go.
You mean support for an organization that terrorized Palestinians as much as Israelis, murdered any dissenters, took all the humanitarian aid and poured it into weapons development. Fired thousands of rockets at indiscriminately at civilian targets. Then sent troops to rape, murder and kill innocent civilians. This last they filmed and celebrated with great glee. Especially the naked concert goer whose corpse they paraded in the streets while cheering. Then they use Gazan civilians they won’t let leave and use as human shields so any strike against them results in casualties. That IS what happens in THIS type of war. And it will sadly be necessary to cut this cancer out of the Middle East. It’s no surprise the local communists LOVE Hamas. The communist cries out in pain even as he strikes you.
ERIC – where did I say I support Hamas? The constant demonizing of anyone that speaks up in support of the lives of thousands of innocent Palestinians is absolutely tiresome. You’re really stretching and it’s not OK.
Believe it or not, a human is capable of feeling and expressing empathy for innocent people being bombed to death AT THE SAME TIME as condemning terrorists and having those same expressions of empathy for the civilian deaths on the other side.
This is not what many seem to think here: You’re either Pro-Israel or Pro-Terrorists. WRONG.
“Believe it or not, a human is capable of feeling and expressing empathy for innocent people being bombed to death AT THE SAME TIME as condemning terrorists and having those same expressions of empathy for the civilian deaths on the other side.”
Sure, you’re capable of it. You just aren’t doing it. You crying about how tiresome it is that people expect you to include the October 7th massacre in every discussion of the current conflict is an abandonment of what you say people can do, above.
You’re literally complaining about being expected to include all of the timely and relevant information related to people murder six weeks ago and people who are currently being held hostage. What a terrible burden on you.
Beyond that, by the way, exactly who don’t you include ALL CASUALTIES when you throw out that 15k number?
As I said, you perpetuating that number without including that there are literally thousands of Hamas military casualties is a total failure and is you, again buying in to Hamas propaganda.
If you want to include ALL CASUALTIES, as you are doing, then you need to include the 1200 October 7th casualties including military personnel killed defending civilians. You need to include the IDF KIA, the Israeli police KIA, and the Arab-Israeli non Jewish citizen military KIAs.
But you don’t. Why is that? Do you think that Hamas KIAs should be talked about and the IDF KIAs should not be talked about? Do you think that a Hamas fighter’s death is more tragic than an IDF fighter’s death?
I think you are biased in ways you aren’t even aware of, and it’s coming through.
Once again, I’m NOT referring to Hamas deaths in my figure, which I only used ONCE. ONE TIME. I’ve avoided that in subsequent posts and maintain my opposition to the killing of innocent Palestinians. If I could edit my comments here, I would not have used the 15,000 figure, but rather the FACT that over half of that figure, in fact about 70%, has been confirmed to be INNOCENT men, women and children.
DISCLAIMER: What Hamas did was terrible.
If you aren’t able to recognize the suffering in Gaza and at the same time recognize the hate for ALL Jewish people that is coming from many of the Pro-Palestine activists then you are really blind. You think that boycotting Jewish owned businesses is “support for Gazans.”
Fuck that.
ALEX – I never said there’s no hate against the Jewish people. Not once. Nor did I say that boycotting Jewish businesses is support. Where did you get all this? Why are you making things up? I’ve solely and only maintained that people who support a ceasefire in Gaza aren’t “pro-Hamas.” That is all I’ve ever said about this subject. Nothing I’ve said is against the Jewish people, nor did I ever suggest that what Hamas did was ok.
You’re really falling into a weird line here.
And here is another falsehood:
“I’ve solely and only maintained that people who support a ceasefire in Gaza aren’t “pro-Hamas.”
Utter horseshit. In fact, many people who support a cease fire are pro-Hamas.
You’re falling for it.
ALEX – Yeah, you’re just wrong. On pretty much all counts of what I’ve said or not said. Just wrong.
BUT, I will concede I should have added a “most” – I’ll fix that now:
” I’ve solely and only maintained that MOST people who support a ceasefire in Gaza aren’t “pro-Hamas.”
As for me “crying” about Gaza, why shouldn’t I? What is your reaction to thousands of dead kids?
I get you want Hamas gone, so do I. Never said anything other than that. Where we differ fundamentally is over the cost of that wish resulting from the chosen means to attain it. I’m absolutely against the indiscriminate bombing of civilians. You’re not it seems. That’s really all there is to it. Nothing more to say. I’ve said my piece and as an intelligent person, I assumed (wrongfully) that you understood it, yet you still lambast me with your unfounded assumptions.
I can’t go into the Holiday season supporting the the maiming and killing of children. My conscious won’t allow it.
You ask why I keep pointing out the words you use? Because they use them falsely in order to push an agenda. Genocide, slaughter, and indiscriminate are powerful words and should be used honestly. You consistently fail to do that.
Again why do you include Hamas terrorists in your accounting of casualties in this conflict and not Israeli civilians or military?
Your bias is showing. Wether it is conscious or not, you clearly assign greater value to Gazans killed than Israelis. You only seem to be terribly upset when an Israeli kills a Gazan. You are only terribly upset when Israel bombs Gaza and apparently not at all when Hamas launches over eleven thousand rockets INDISCRIMNATELY (yes, the actual correct use of the word) at Israel, always attempting to inflict MAXIMUM civilian casualties. Where’s your call for Hamas to cease firing these missiles?
Where is your demand for Hamas to cease hostilities and give up their weapons so a functional non-terrorist government can serve the people in Gaza?
And yet you seem to be uninterested when Arabs kill Arabs. Please let me know when you will be attending a protest against any of the ongoing Arab mass murder of Arabs. Let me know when you will devote thousands of words and many posts to those deaths.
And yet you won’t.
Your bias is showing.
These individuals are mindless, clueless and misguided. I almost feel bad for them.
No mention of the horrific massacre by Hamas that started the whole thing.
JB96 – How many times to pro-ceasefire/pro-Palestinian supporters need to preface everything they say with a mention of the 10/7 attacks? Once an hour? Minute? Before every single sentence they utter?
Seriously, no one with a heart has ignored that horrific terrorist attack. How many times does it need to be mentioned though now after so many days of unrelenting bombing, destruction and mutilation and death of innocent women and children? When is it OK for you for people to just say, “Hey, the constant bombardment of children needs to stop” without the ubiquitous disclaimer: “Hamas did an absolutely horrible, evil and vile thing to over a thousand innocent Israelis and people of other nationalities….”
How many more children need to be dismembered and burned alive before we can ask for a ceasefire?
Also, once again, the “whole thing” started long before October 7, 2023…..
Oh now you want to go through the last couple thousand years of history to justify violence?
ALEX – Uh, I always have. Man, you should ease up with the constant unfounded assumptions. I’ve said from the get go this is not a simple issue nor is as black and white as many seem to think.
Sure bud. Your take is as simplistic as any out there. Hamas, Iran, the Anti-Semites of the world who are using this whole thing as a vehicle for their hate are working really hard to make people forget about the torture, murder, rape, and kidnapping of innocent people on October 7th. The predominant rhetoric that I am seeing in these protests is not about peace it’s about payback.
When you express your irritation that people are taking these folks to task for trying to blot out what happened six weeks ago, just like they tear down the posters of the kidnapped kids, trying to blot them out as if they never existed, you’re falling for it.
Buddy, don’t lie about what I’ve said. I didn’t say that you are crying about Gaza. Nope. But you want that because you want to depict me as being heartless and fine with indiscriminate bombing of children, etc., etc..
I said that you are crying about your perception that people are demanding that you include October 7th in every conversation about the conflict.
You’re being dishonest here.
Additionally, I think that you are almost certainly a kind, intelligent and conference person. I applaud you for that.
At the same time, you are carrying water for Hamas propaganda. I’m not even saying that you are doing so intentionally but you clearly don’t have the desire or will to examine your own position and statements with objectivity.
Your decision.
~100/460,000 = 0.000217391304348%
Way to go everyone.
How about doing something meaningful with your time besides harassing citizens and “rejecting” the county resolution.
Happy Saturday 🙂
SBTONER – what’s the figure represent?
SBPOSER – a statistic is absolutely meaningless without a defined term and context. So again for the little guy in the back, what do those numbers represent? Do you understand what I’m asking?
STONER – Oh, my bad. I thought your comment about those figures “what we call a statistic” was in reply to this comment. The instant deletions and delay really mess with the flow.
Anyway, still curious what those numbers represent. What is the .0002% reflect?
The .0002% reflects how many people in SB actually have an issue with what is going on in the Middle East, to the point of coasting disruption and obstructing the citizens and our business.
Instead of preaching and protesting and causing a ruckus, I hear that both sides over there are taking volunteers.
Why not go over there if they are so passionate?
Oh, I see. Well, to be sure, there are a LOT more than 100 people in our county that “have an issue with what is going on.” I wasn’t at the event so I don’t know how accurate the comments about them disrupting and obstructing people any more than any other protest.
Is there more info somewhere else about this? Did anyone here attend or see this protest?
These people have horribly misguided. The only barrier to peace in the region is Hamas. It’s always been the case. All these pro Palestinian protesters have been blindly mislead to believe Israel is the enemy when in fact Israel is simply trying to eradicate a terrorist organization that has said it never wants peace, that kills its own people when they try to flee, who threatens repeat attacks of October 7, who uses its own people as human shields, who raped young girls, the list goes on. But yeah…let’s all be sheep and hold up “free Palestine” flags cuz it’s cool. Smfh. Pathetic
Israel gave Gaza to the Palestinians, who could have chosen to build a tourist economy. Gaza is next to the Mediterranean Sea. Instead, Hamas decided to launch missiles and intelligence, and Israel, if anything, our board of supervisors, should stand behind Israel and get rid of Hamas terrorist organization
I am with you. This is SO rude to our wonderful. productive Jewish neighbors ors. Shameful!
You are spot on about the area as well. These people have received more aid than any people in the world, including from Israel. They choose to build tunnels and buy military equipment instead of helping their own citizens with better schools and infrastructure.
“These people have received more aid than any people in the world, ” LOL wow! Where do you get your news? That’s hilarious!
Can’t help but wonder how far these people in the US that support terrorists will go to help them. No need to feel bad for them “Coast.” Next, they just might be looking for our heads.
Couple questions for people who do not acknowledge history:
1-Where was the Palestine Country?…..Never was one.
2-What is Palestinian currency? …..Never had one.
3-Before Arafat, who led Palestinians? …..Never was anybody. They did not exist before Arafat.
Israel gave the Palestinian people the land and right to exist and all the Palestinians do is invest in weapons and tunnels development to annihilate and kill innocent Jews. They lob rockets from schools and hospital grounds and want total extermination of Jews.
All the Palestinian Terrorists have to do is free the (Innocent civilian) hostages that they have not slaughtered……..already….and Israel may ease up, but that is doubtful at this point.
Palestinian terrorists started this and Israel will end it.
It is surprising how people ignore history with false statements:
1. Where was the “Palestine country”.? There are historical references to the land of Palestine from pre-biblical times through the 20th century. Even the Old Testament refers to the “Philistines”, and the etymology traces through centuries. 19th – 20th Century Zionists published objective was to establish “a Jewish homeland in Palestine”.
2. The statement “Israel gave the Palestinian people the right to exist and the land” is blatantly untrue. In 1947, Israel drove 750,000 Palestinians from their homeland. Many took refuge in what are now known as the West Bank in Gaza, which were given to Jordanian and Egyptian control in a 1949 Armistice agreement. Israel gained control of the West Bank and Gaza by military force in 1967. Israel has militarily occupied and colonized the West Bank since then – in violation of International Law. Gaza has been under blockade since 2005 – essentially imprisoning millions of people, again in violation of International law. The nation of Palestine is recognized by 138 countries in the U.N. Israel is not one of them.
and you’re ignore history as well.
“Israel gained control of the West Bank and Gaza by military force in 1967” tell us what went on that lead to Israel gaining control of the West Bank in 1967.
It really is funny how you shade your language to leave out that Israel occupied both Gaza and the West Bank after they fought a war against Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
If you want to talk about history, no, there has never been an independent nation of Palestine other than tribal areas which were constantly changing hands. You claiming that there are historical references to a “land of Palestine” doesn’t even come close. Does it even really matter?
Frankly, the history doesn’t matter. You will never, ever be able to replace what existed pre 1948. People who want to do that are completely deluded. Israel will not be destroyed, or wiped from the face of the earth, blah, blah, blah. Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed, and no, not every piece of land owned by an Israeli was stolen, though most of it was, some of it was in fact purchased, will never return to the homes of their grandparents.
Look, I’d love to be informed that the land and wealth that was stolen from my people was somehow magically going to be returned to me. It won’t. Not ever.
So everyone talking about this conflict would do the world a favor by shutting up about the “history” and instead face facts.
The people of Gaza deserve to live in peace and security. Just like the people of Israel. Hamas will almost certainly never allow that to happen. They will never give up power because their leadership is sitting on billions of dollars of stolen Palestinian money in Qatar. The only way for a lasting peace to have a chance is for Hamas to be hurt so badly that another governing entity can have a shot at making something out of Gaza..
The first part will happen. The second part is up to the people of Gaza and the regional Arab powers.
Two wrongs won’t right a wrong.
There aren’t 2 wrongs here. Only one wrong and a strong response against it.
TEAMAN – how on Earth can you possibly suggest the killing of innocent people is right?
Viva Palestina? Certainly, reasonable people can pray for peace and hostilities to cease. That a treaty be signed between Israel and a Palestinian authority yet to be determined.
In the meantime, Israel has a duty to track down those murderous criminals responsible for Oct. 7. Those captured should be prosecuted for war crimes and crimes against humanity.
The thought that Hamas routinely uses women and children as human shields is outrageous. The use of schools, hospitals and Mosques as military facilities is a war crime under international treaty. The use of irrigation pipes as rockets, given to them by the UN, exemplifies their evil intentions.
The notion that our elected officials, in the form of County Supervisors, somehow endorse Palestinian atrocities would be laughable if it wasn’t so disgraceful.
Those unfortunate Palestinians who are now fleeing for their lives, chose Hamas, overwhelmingly to govern Gaza. This needs to change and an interim Palestinian government needs to be put in place which respects human rights and dignity and acknowledges Israel’s right to exist.
Those in this Country who advocate violence and intimidation in the name of Hamas needs to be tracked down by our FBI and prosecuted. The harassment of students or anyone else based on religious beliefs unacceptable. Any students found guilty of this should be expelled, students on Visa’s engaged in this should be deported.
Mossad will track the perpetrators of the Oct massacre to the ends of the earth and settle the score, as they did after the Munich massacre of 1972. I like that idea. As for Palestinian casualties in the current war, it is tragic, but what can one expect when civilians are used as shields? Hamas knew full-well what would happen, and did their atrocities anyway. Simply evil, no matter the history of the region.
Yes. Not only “they did it anyway”, but rather they did it because. The more innocent people die in Gaza the more Hamas believes they can maintain their hold on power and financial support from sympathizers around the world.
For Hamas, the civilians in Gaza are less than human, a means to an end, a page out of a PR playbook.
“For Hamas, the civilians in Gaza are less than human, a means to an end, a page out of a PR playbook.” – And the Israeli government’s position is any different?
LOL, Sac. Actually, yeah, the Israeli government through their policies, in this conflict, literally ascribes greater value to Palestinian Civilian lives than the government of Gaza.
The Israeli government makes efforts to minimize Palestinian casualties. Hamas does not and in fact operates using Gaza civilians as human shields.
US warship attacked in the Red Sea today.
It’s good to know that most Americans support the right side.
.00002% will not join the fight if it comes to that though.
ALEX – the “self restraint” you ask for goes both ways. Time to end the pointless back and forth here. What it boils down to is that I cannot accept the further loss of innocent lives and the maiming of children, even as a means to the end we both agree on. That’s where we differ and we’re not likely to agree any further.
DISCLAIMER: What Hamas did was terrible.
The irony of ironies is the reaction of the Left to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Clearly, some on the Left bigotry and racism towards Jews is very obvious and finally showing its true colors! Yep, Dems are turning on each other and it’s about time.
Statements made by a sitting member of congress, Jayapal-D yesterday, is revolting. To somehow excuse or trivializing rape of Israeli women by gangster Hamas fighters should be grounds for her immediate resignation!
No one should ever forget the protests and harassment of Jewish businesses by Leftist social warriors.
This is very simple. Being upset about the THOUSANDS (yes, ALEX, once again not all 15K+) of innocent dead Palestinians in Gaza and supporting a ceasefire so the civilians can be protected/evacuated as much as possible is NOT supporting Hamas, nor is it ignoring the tragic events of 10/7.
For those who can’t grasp that, I feel sad.